Be wise. Be brave. Be tricky. ([info]slithytove) wrote,
@ 2008-10-07 22:30:00
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Current mood: worried

Obama/McCain townhall debate digest:

Brokaw: We worked hard on this debate format, and our time is very limited. That is, our time is limited. Have I made clear that our time is limited?

Audience Member: What about invading Darfur and destroying their oil in order to solve our financial crisis?

McCain: My friends. You cannot do this by doing that. I have always. Won't. Must. Always. Country.

Obama: Anything you don't like is George Bush's fault. If elected, I will give everything to everyone.

Michelle Obama: I'm wearing a red dress with sparkly stuff on it. And I have cleavage.

Cindy McCain: I'm also wearing sparkly stuff, and while my breasts are not as nice as Michelle's, my hair is dyed very, very blonde.

Uncommitted Ohio voters: Yay! Meh. Yay! Meh. Yay!


McCain ain't doing it, folks. He is swinging, but not leaving a mark. The economy is spiraling into the sun, which favors the Democrats. McCain can't match Obama's charisma. Although there's a month to go, I don't see how my Republicans can pull this out. I think we're in for four to eight years of (very) liberal Democratic rule.

All I can do is creep into my hole and try to stay safe while the great thunder lizards stomp about overhead.

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[info]ecmyers
2008-10-08 03:04 am UTC (link)
Next time I'll just save myself two hours and read your summary.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 04:20 pm UTC (link)
No, no! Watch the debate, and make your own summary!

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[info]mroctober
2008-10-08 03:14 am UTC (link)
Maybe if they were your [kind of] Republicans then they'd be winning. Instead I see intolerance and stubbornness.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 04:21 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure there are any of my kind of Republicans. I'm not even sure I'm one.

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[info]mroctober
2008-10-08 03:15 am UTC (link)
Btw, in case that didn't read as a compliment to you, it was intended.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 04:21 pm UTC (link)
'Sawright!

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[info]saint_monkey
2008-10-08 03:16 am UTC (link)
Excellent summary. Don't worry too much about liberal rule. Resources will be far too limited to engage any significant reforms during the first term. When the economy doesn't rebound overnight, people will become disillusioned. Obama will need to play to the center in order to have any re-election hope.

The cynic in me sees four years of stagnation.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 04:31 pm UTC (link)
The optimist in me sees four years of stagnation.

Actually, I used to think I liked divided government. See: the last six years of the Clinton administration.

However, we've had a divided government since the start of the 110th Congress, and I'm not sure it's been all that hot.

OTOH, the two periods when we've had both Congress and the Administration of the same party, 1976-1980, and 2000 to 2006, haven't been all that hot either.

So, I give up. I'm going to bed.

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[info]haddayr
2008-10-08 03:33 am UTC (link)
If Obama's very liberal, I'm a commie. I think you'll be just fine.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 03:18 pm UTC (link)
So what's your position on us Kulaks?

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[info]haddayr
2008-10-08 03:29 pm UTC (link)
Step #1: look up Kulaks.
Step #2: say something like: "First up against the wall when the Revolution comes," which heretofore had been reserved for People Who Use the Word 'Usage' To Sound Smart and 'Ideate' to sound Kicky.

In all seriousness, the man supports the death penalty. He is against gay marriage. He voted for FISA. He wants to INCREASE our troops in multiple countries. He is deeply religious.

The man is middle-of-the-road, dood.

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[info]wintersweet
2008-10-08 05:02 pm UTC (link)
Amen. If that's liberal, no wonder I kept eyeing the Green Party way back when. (Too bad they're largely insane.)

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[info]haddayr
2008-10-08 05:05 pm UTC (link)
Our local Green Party is pretty damn good. We had a Green city council member, and I will be votign for a Green state representative who has a real shot at winning, this November.

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[info]wintersweet
2008-10-08 05:19 pm UTC (link)
Individual Greens are OK, but the group overall makes me twitch, haha. I'm always open to voting for a candidate of any party, though. (Obvious exceptions for parties run by white supremacists or hippie secessionists or alien abductionists or whoever. :P)

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[info]dr_phil_physics
2008-10-08 04:41 am UTC (link)
One of the local DJs has had keywords for debate drinking games. For the Veep debate it was "maverick". They settled on "government" for tonight -- should've picked "my friends" if they wanted to get hammered.

Of course, I don't drink.

Dr. Phil

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[info]wintersweet
2008-10-08 04:42 am UTC (link)
Ooh! Very liberal Democrats? Where? Where? I'm excited!

:P

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[info]haddayr
2008-10-08 03:29 pm UTC (link)
HAH! And amEN.

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 03:39 pm UTC (link)
Whether you believe, with the National Journal, that Obama is the 'most liberal' US senator based on his voting record, there's no doubt that he's at the leftmost edge of the American mainstream political spectrum.

The Democrats have nominated candidates from the leftmost wing of their party before, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, but each time the voters shot them down. The only Democrats to win the presidency in recent decades were moderates, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. Yes, Carter doesn't seem very moderate today, but he was in 1976.

We appear to be on the verge of electing the most leftist presidential candidate since Eugene Debs. I'm sure that's fine with most Democratic activists, and most of my flist. But I suspect the voters don't quite realize what they're doing, or who they're getting.

Obama is intelligent, flexible, and open-minded. I'm betting he will rapidly 'grow in office', as they say. But he will start out far to the left of what most voters expect. Some foreign despot will probe for weakness, and there will be an international incident, possibly war, probably during Obama's first year in office. Conservatives, who usually do better on the defensive, and who will be newly-energized by not having to lug around the decaying carcase of George W. Bush, will raise a ruckus.

Interesting times are coming, I reckon.

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[info]wintersweet
2008-10-08 05:01 pm UTC (link)
Leftmost edge, my ass. Try Pete Stark if you're looking for a real progressive. Obama's hardly progressive at all.

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[info]greyvorfeed
2008-10-08 05:13 pm UTC (link)
Whether you believe, with the National Journal, that Obama is the 'most liberal' US senator based on his voting record, there's no doubt that he's at the leftmost edge of the American mainstream political spectrum.

Let's not forget that being on the left edge of the mainstream spectrum puts him at center-left in terms of American politics, and at the center-right edge of nearly every other political spectrum in the West, so it's not as if he's anywhere close to extreme. Also, there were several candidates in the Democratic primary who are much more liberal than Obama is. Kucinich and (to a lesser extent) Gravel both score a lot higher on the fringe-o-meter, and even they look like centrists compared to pols in other countries.

Sorry, but I'm with wintersweet: very liberal Democrats hardly even exist, much less get to take the Presidency, and being "the 'most liberal' US senator" is a lot like being the biggest guy on the junior-high junior-varsity football team: it's something, yes, but it's not a particularly scary something.

We appear to be on the verge of electing the most leftist presidential candidate since Eugene Debs. I'm sure that's fine with most Democratic activists, and most of my flist. But I suspect the voters don't quite realize what they're doing, or who they're getting.

It's not as if Obama is running a stealth campaign, here. He's been quite up-front about what he intends to do, including the ambitious stuff (tax cut for 95% of working families, universal health coverage, leaving Iraq). It's not as if his opponents haven't beat the "omg danger danger liberals!" drum continuously since the primary, either. Hell, I got a spam letter just the other day with "look how liberal Obama is" scare tactics on the front.

I think it's very likely that the voters know exactly what they're doing, and who they're getting.

At any rate, if we Democrats lived through eight years of Bush, I'm sure you can hold your nose for Obama. I guess I'm just used to "too bad, suck it up" fatalism, seeing as how there's no American candidate that meets my views, but I just can't summon much sympathy for you. There are things I personally don't like about Obama, and about the Democrats in general (gun control, for one), but I'm just gonna have to deal, just like you are. Let's concentrate on fixing the party system itself, rather than on the parties.

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[info]xaosenkosmos
2008-10-08 06:17 am UTC (link)
Good analysis and summary; it's a sad state of affairs.

(I'd rather roll the dice on Obama than Palin. A democratic loss is a serious 1d6 roll on her becoming president... I do miss the real GOP at times like these. Doggone neocons!)

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[info]slithytove
2008-10-08 04:39 pm UTC (link)
I love Palin's spirit, and I think she's got great stats, but she illustrates the problems with being twinked up rather than gaining Exp normally. She needs to roll a new character, and fight her way up through a bunch of kobolds and ogres, get some loot, rent a few mercenaries, and after her character is more seasoned, *then* mount an assault on, say the Senior Mindflayer of the State of West Virgina.

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[info]dagoski
2008-10-08 01:01 pm UTC (link)
I'm not big on party ideology on the best of days. I tend towards liberal because I benefitted from a lot of social programs growing up. Unfortunately, whoever gets voted in is not going to have the financial latitude to do much in terms of ideology. The real question is whether or not reality will seep in through the winner's pores. I'm not sure about McCain and his circle. Barry O seems to have a bit more pragmatism. At least that's what I hope. I was also disturbed by McCain's interpretation of Russia. He seems to understand the Soviet Union a great deal. However, we're not dealing with the Soviet Union. We're dealing with Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states and their long history of ethnic antipathy. The Soviet Union was a finger pressing a stop button on history.

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